Cannabis Revival 2005

[niandra_lades]

Columbia, MO passed both propositions for medical marijuana and decriminalization of recreational use and the passed with almost 3/4 MAJORITY...it is time we bring all local NORML groups here in the state & University of Arkansas back down this Sept. for the Statewide Cannabis Crawl. NORML St. Louis, Columbia, and KC will make it down this year for the all day concert and lectures. I am looking for interest in any BANDS that want to play, donations of equipment or money, or just any good ideas... i can be reached at kellymaddy@sbcglobal.net Thanks a ton....you can also reach me @ home -417-626-2794

Sept. 10, 2005 @ Schifferdecker Park.
Directions and more specifities will be announced soon :)

[shinobi]

Welcome to the forums niandra. I'm sure you'll find like minded people here in addition to those who oppose the idea. :wave:

[Scutter]

Yep, our Mayor wanted to sit around and smoke pot with the anti-Moark expansion people and talk about the problems.

[niandra_lades]

is that so? He care to do the ribbon cutting for the Revival? lol....that would grab headlines for sure...
though i am assuming you are joking....

[Scutter]

I think he was just trying to insult some people Niandra but he has a big problem with his choice of words sometimes. In case you haven't guessed by now, our Mayor ain't too bright,

[niandra_lades]

Does anyone plan on attending the event?

[Scutter]

Not me Niandra, the only thing I smoke is tobacco, however, I do think that all drugs should be legalized simply because prohibition of them is not working and is costing way too much in funds and futile effort. Hope you all have a good time and also hope that you all eventually get at least marijuana legalized.

[niandra_lades]

Oh you don't have to smoke to come. There will be speakers, hemp bio-fuel cars, information booths, an all day concert, and much more. All shapes and sizes of people feel free to come out :)

[DWin60610]

Originally posted by niandra_lades
There will be speakers, hemp bio-fuel cars, information booths, an all day concert, and much more.

.....and more than a few interested law enforcement officers.

[niandra_lades]

Of course every year (except last when the event wasn't held) they drive by, but as to my knowledge we have never had a problem with Joplin Police. I thank them for that, but at the same time they need to not arresting us non-violent, responsible marijuana users.

[Scutter]

Yeah but, the prisons across this country are filled with non-violent, responsible marijuana users.

[niandra_lades]

very true, mandatory minimum drug sentences since the 1980's are mostly responsible for the tripling in size of the U.S. prison system. Violent offenders are routinely released to make way for these offenders. It's time law enforcement to bring a more logical approach to this and stop wasting our money and locking up drug users.

[Scutter]

The only way to change it is to change out the members of Congress and the various State Legislatures until you manage to get some people in those offices who recognize that this country has lost the "war on drugs" and will adjust policy accordingly.

[niandra_lades]

lol cant resist...you know what that implies? There are people on drugs winning it!

Man sits on couch, lights bowl...."i got my flank covered. Honey, can you get me a beer? i got a war to win here"

The drunks , " Sh*t those drug users are creative mother f*ckers, hope they dont come after us drunks, we're just annoying"

But in all seriousness, progess is being made. More people are waking up to the social liberation there should be in this country. Once the people change, so will the policy. Albeit, policy change lags behind by a far distance.

[Scutter]

The people have not changed. Last I heard there would not be a drug problem unless the market was there for the drugs.

[niandra_lades]

Last I heard there would not be a drug problem unless the market was there for the drugs.

Can you clarify what you mean by this statement?



But people are changing, right in our backyard too. Columbia, MO adopted decriminalization of marijuana. Ann Arbor, MI as well. And not to mention the 13 states with medical marijuana laws on their books. Not to mention all out statewide legalization initiatives in Nevada and Alaska in the last decade. This all happened in the last 30 years. Policy is changing, just slowly. And opinion polls as well. Hopefully the stupidity will end and these people who are victimized b/c of a plant can go back to normal lives once and for all.

[Scutter]

What I meant was simply as long as there is a market for the drugs, there will be somebody willing to provide those drugs, for a profit. The folks that profit from drugs being illegal are the suppliers and distributors and the police, in funding and/or payoffs. The only point I view as a true reason to legalize the drugs is the drop in ancillary crime that has happened in Europe when the drugs were legalized and the diminished cost to law enforcement.

[niandra_lades]

Oh absolutely. Though I believe there are many other reasons they should be legalized not only for one's personal freedom of choice, but for open research on drugs that have been otherwise "chained" from research programs because of the DEA Scheduling of them.

They (Gov't) can argue till they are blue in the face regarding the issure of the war on drugs. And it is going to be a dirty fight that they, fortunately will not win. Arthur Schopenhauer (german philosopher) once said truth comes in 3 stages, First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

[DWin60610]

Originally posted by niandra_lades
very true, mandatory minimum drug sentences since the 1980's are mostly responsible for the tripling in size of the U.S. prison system.

the typical mj user caught with a personal stash is rarely, if ever, subject to a harsh mandatory minimum, unless designated as a habitual offender. a guy caught with a quarter ounce during a traffic stop will not spend years in jail. however, the guy smuggling pounds very well may be subject to a mandatory minimum. the rapid increase in prison populations is/was due to the drastic difference in sentencing guidelines for crack cocaine vs. powder cocaine, and has very little to do with casual mj use.


Originally posted by niandra_lades
Violent offenders are routinely released to make way for these offenders.

can we really split hairs between a "violent" offender who committed an offense against a single person as compared to the "non-violent" meth cook that committed an offense against the entire community? so while i don't disagree that violent offenders are released to make space for a non-violent drug dealer, this really needs to be handled on a case by case basis. for example, i would support releasing someone convicted of battery to place the county meth cook in the clink.


Originally posted by niandra_lades
It's time law enforcement to bring a more logical approach to this and stop wasting our money and locking up drug users.

i would agree that we need a more logical approach to sentencing, including elimination of mandatory minimums. i believe that judges and juries should be empowered to deliver sentences based on the unique circumstances of each case. that said, not all drug users are created equal, and sometimes it is not a waste to lock up that drug user even if he/she is not violent if they have become a scourge to the community.

[niandra_lades]

just dont keep it out of my lungs....i will repost at a longer length later tonite....

[niandra_lades]

Judy, in all due respect, it is a casual thing, as casual as having a beer after work. Some have a beer, some light up a joint. Nothing different, except for how much more safe it is than alcohol. Now your assumption that it is a "reefer madness" type weed unsuited for public acceptance is unfounded. Nearly 80 million people in America have tried pot. 20 million have used in the last year. Hardly an uncommon occurence.

Dwin, it is all comes down to the jurisdiction in which the offender is charged. Surely a majority of marijuana possessions do get referred to treatment or fines. But you are left with people still going to jail for possessing a plant. It is ludicrous people are even worried about simple possession. I mean honestly, do you care that I have a bag of marijuana? Will I kill with it? Rape with it? No, but I will light up, put on some music, and hang out with my friends in the privacy of my own home. I surely hope that does not hurt or offend anyone.

Statistics from recent BJS (Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics) reports suggest that, at any one time, 59,300 prisoners charged with or convicted of violating marijuana laws (3.3% of the total incarcerated population) are behind bars, at a total cost to taxpayers of some $1.2 billion per year. They represent almost 12% of the total federal prison population and about 2.7% of the state prison population. Of the people incarcerated in federal and state prison and in local jails, 37,500 were charged with marijuana offenses only and an additional 21,800 with both marijuana offenses and other controlled-substance offenses. Of the marijuana-only offenders, 15,400 are incarcerated for possession, not trafficking.

Furthermore Dwin, I believe drug users are purely a health problem. That is all. Now if you made drugs legal (all drugs) Your local meth cook would be out of business.


sometimes it is not a waste to lock up that drug user even if he/she is not violent if they have become a scourge to the community.


A scourge is a person who "inspires fear of dread". In which way would a drug user do this w/o commiting additional crimes?

[Scutter]

Niandra, as Shinobi said, you will find both points of view here but you have to know that there is never going to be widespread acceptance of your program here. Hey, this is the town that is in a uproar because a charitable event served beer at it's fund raiser. The normal perception here is that if it is illegal then the issue is not open to question and you are not going to open closed minds which still think marijuana is a gateway drug leading to addiction of other drugs which are deadly. My opinion is that legalization would save money and lower the ancillary crime rate but I also recognize that legalization will not, in and of itself, cure the problem of addiction. To achieve any positive result, legalization has got to be coupled with public health money expended for treatment and forced rehabilitation will be a necessary part of that type of program. If you all really want to have marijuana legalized you have to realize that it cannot be a stand alone drug and any such movement must address the issue of all drug use and find some workable solutions because it is for darned sure the authorities are not going to develop such a program for you. I guess what I am saying is it really is up to your movement to come up with some solutions, maybe even borrowing from the European experiments, and work with your elected officials to present those solutions that the public at large can buy off on. Until and unless you do, marijuana will never be legal.

[niandra_lades]

well said:)

[DWin60610]

as always, thanks for the responses and contributions to the thread!

scutter, once again, i am in agreement. though i am not located in neosho proper, your analysis of the "state of the town" is directionally correct. and your comments regarding the mj legalization movement addressing all drug use and developing workable solutions is balanced and well thought. i would appreciate reading more.

niandra, i believe we could be linked at the hip in the battle for legalization. i am completely for decriminalization and/or legalization. and while i would prefer no governmental controls, if legalization required regulation similar to alcohol production and consumption, i would consider that a small burden to bear to regain personal freedom of choice. our differences likely lie in the use of styles of rhetoric. but to address your question....yes, the drug user would likely have to commit more crimes. what i was thinking, but did not describe, is the non-violent drug user (more likely addict) commonly found in larger cities. you know, the guy/gal who is constantly wasted, committing petty thefts, facilitating prostitution, harrassing law abiding passers-by, etc. i realize this is not a problem in neosho, but i live about 5 blocks from cabrini green in the big windy where it is a problem. maybe a guy like i describe should be locked up (or placed into treatment) when found in possession of a small quantity. but to be fair, i believe the same thing should occur with habitual drunks doing the same.

judy, what is inappropriate about this thread? judging by the number of responses in a short amount of time, the topics of both the event and the politics surrounding mj legalization has strong interest. in my never humble opinion, the style of discussion occuring on this thread is excellent for this board....varied opinions, inclusion of facts and statistics, strong interest, no personal attacks, minimal off topic responses, etc. personally, i would rather discuss and reflect on mj politics and legislation than mad dog martin's abuse of a child.....err, alleged abuse. if you have strong emotion regarding the effect of mj on children, would you consider structuring and then contributing your thoughts to the thread? would you mind if i or others commented on your thoughts about "beautiful minds without the exposure"?

[niandra_lades]

Originally posted by judytesterman
Yes, what he is accused of is AWFUL AND ILLEGAL.. (like pot) but I do not think we will ever discuss the issue of casual child abuse of anykind..(shivers..uggg) That is my point..and that is all I really have to say..I am sorry if I have not made myself clear enough for all of your to understand my thoughts.

Not only did you make yourself not clear, you further muddied your argument. Pot is awful? It is one of the safest, non-toxic substances a human can consume. And for you to equate it to child abuse is absurd and irresponsible. Please mark me wrong and retract whatever connotation you intended with this statement regarding the equation of the two.


Originally posted by judytesterman


I love a good debate. I meant nothing really about ones personal use of drugs. This should be discussed but when I start reading about lighting up with my friends and all the casual conversations about pot on here..it does bother me or shall I say, it makes me uncomfortable. Folks..this drug is not legal. At one time we were discussing the medical use..not the casual party use.


Would you say the same if i replaced the word "joint" with "beer"?

[Scutter]

Judy, your thoughts are pretty clear to me and, as you know, we welcome differing views. I have to tell you that the only reason I favor legalization is to stop the massive flow of funds into a war we cannot win. I have always said there are only two ways to go on this issue and most folks do not like either one. We can either set a death penality on dealers and suppliers and twenty to thirty year prison terms on users caught in possession or we can legalize the drugs and invest in a massive public health program to retard, not stop, the usage. Either way there is a cost and somehow I don't think the American public is ready to send little Johnny to prison for twenty years or to give little Tommy a lethal injection. In reality we are our own worst enemy when it comes to punishment for possession and that is, the courts are sending mixed signals for the offense. Some jurisdictions consider it a trival offence and some require hard time for it. I really think that maybe, our governmental agencies should get together and define this drug; status, medical use and standardized penalties for non-medical use in clear terms and enforce strict adherence to whatever terms those are. It really is time to change the law and I really don't care which way they change it. Now that said, I would think that the other side of the issue that you mentioned, child abuse, should be addressed in a new thread under Health Care because it is, after all, one of the biggest public health issues we face here in our little corner of paradise.

[niandra_lades]

I believe every known fact about alcohol and pot are against you on your argument. It has been proven time and again pot is far more harmless than any recreational drug. Not only by renowned medical journals but by the same gov't that condones its use. I just don't see any basis for your argument. I wasn't trying to be mean. I was conversating. I get the idea if i were to talk to you in person you would be flustered and raising your voice at me. That is not what this is about. This is a debate you have entered into. If you are not adult enought to continue rebutting with substance then that is fine. If you provide some conversation instead of attacks I am all ears. What this is not however is a "drug fest". This is for educational, entertainment, and awareness. It is not a day for smoking till you fall asleep. It is a day for us as a community of marijuana smokers to tell the authorities we are normal people, who work, pay taxes and the only difference is our choice of recreational drug. Although I'm not telling people what they can and can't do on that day. I am not promoting getting lit on drugs. You are terribly confused with my intentions im afraid.

[DWin60610]

Originally posted by judytesterman
Your mind is obviously clouded and closed.

i likely speak for the membership when i state that we personally do not want to be involved in an emotional debate, so personal attacks such as this should be avoided. as with any opinion, my preference is to post opinions backed by strong reasoning in a well structured manner that encourages reflection and personal growth. whether my posts encourage change or reinforce someone's already strong stand, i would prefer an individual think about the content of the post and not have to overcome emotion. of course, others prefer short one liners, jokes, personal attacks, whatever.

scutter, thanks for restating that differing views are welcome.

niandra, thanks for rebutting with substance and focus and without emotion.

i would personally enjoy continuing the thread with a focus on the pros and cons of decriminalization/legalization. for example, in terms of safety, if it is "hysterically funny" to believe that mj is safer than alcohol, please share opinion as to why that is your belief and feel free to provide supporting information from credible sources as opposed to "rummage through the statistics on the internet". i would enjoy the opportunity to share my opinions, and i guarantee it would not be personal or emotionally charged.

[shinobi]

Thanks DWin for getting us back to the issue.

Judy, the only one calling this event a "dope party" is...you.

If you will allow me to interject, I believe that the Cannabis Revival is more than just a bunch of "Heads" that want to get high and party. It's more of an informational event promoting ALL aspects of the use of the Marijuana plant which is in itself a very useful and amazingly versatile plant that grows quickly and is renewable. It has a multitude of uses which could be beneficial to the public including; alternative energy, textile, plastics, paper, cordage, medical and industrial just to name just a few.

The event is held, as I understand it, to help raise public awareness of the benefits of legalization of a natural, renewable resource that should never have been outlawed in the first place.

Now that I've tossed my 2 cents in, continue...

[niandra_lades]

I never said everyone that smokes pot is a saint. That is illogical. Like saying everyone who smokes cigarrettes will be an asshole. It is called a red herring. And prohibitionists and anti-drug advocates have used them against cannabis for years to demonize and further entrench horrendous ideals side by side with marijuana. This spread of disinformation through commercials and other sources that engage in this "if you smoke pot you'll be a loser" mentality is so irrational.

And you can't have DEEP marijuana usage....in terms of phsyical problems or mental problems. There is no evidence for that statement. I guess im a deep user. Daily smoker. But im ambitious, i have a career, attend college, play in a band, and help with this sort of thing around here and in Fayettville, Ark.

Everyone knows there are people who happen to use marijuana, that dont do crap. That is THEIR problem...not a result of marijuana use.

[niandra_lades]

Im afraid your idea about the revival is still utterly flawed.

And of course I am jumping on the defense. I AM THE DEFENSE.

People like me have been persecuted the whole last century as criminals b/c of a PLANT. Not only people like me but the drug war started as a war against races. Latino and african americans were personal targets of Harry Anslinger b/c of marijuana. I feel a need for defense, especially when you stem a plethora of family problems from someone strictly using marijuana. The gateway effect is false my friend, but you can waste your breath with it if you like. I can assure you there are some much more serious issues with that family than marijuana use.

[niandra_lades]

Originally posted by judytesterman

Folks...come on..the majority of you know what I am trying to say. Lets discuss the pros and cons of medical and other uses on the other thread as we were. I really enjoyed most of those posts and agreed with a lot of it. This little forum is a wonderful community asset and I hate to see kids or adults coming on here to promote what we all know in general....the Cannabis Revival, no matter how you look at it...is a pot fest...something we really do not need to advertise and boast about.

The last part of that comment is ridiculous. You Judy do not know what the purpose of this festival is plain and simple. You are wrong.

And another thing, this is festival of music and information. Why would they feel the need to stifle free speech? This has gone on for 3 years in Joplin before. The Joplin Police Dept. recognized us and otherwise did nothing. They were gracious and well aware of the festival and I do hope that much respected behavior continues.

[FORMERMSHP718]

As a former law enforcement officer and the son of judy, i have to say the legalization of pot of is crazy. of cource that has been trained into me and you would expect nothing else from a cop or former cop. As far as the festival goes...joplin pd leaves it alone because the gathering of people is garunteed in the first admendment. as long as they stay peaceful and dont flaunt the the police will stay away...but believe me they want to catch someone doing something so they can come in there and bust it up....they would have to have a warrant otherwise....they are waiting for someone to screw up and do something overtly illegal...i wouldnt be shocked to discover that the MSHP has undercover narc agents there anyway. they may not arrest you but they will know your name and you will go into the special file at GHQ. As far as some of your other arguements about pot being no worse than alcohol....i have to disagree on one major point....pot is illegal...alcohol is not. i honestly dont know many stats about pot and its users...all i know is that it impairs judgement in much the same way as alcohol, it is just as bad to get high and drive as it is to drink and drive...i know that not all pot smokers are losers and some have become very successful people in out society. but the odds go much the other way in that regard. eventually pot will catch up with you and you will suffer from it. (even if it is lung cancer from the smoke). Like i said before i dont know lots of stats to throw out there...alcohol was treated as the major drug for us to worry about in training, so i wont get into the debate about legalization(i will likely get lynched in this forum)...besides you already know what my opinion will be.

[niandra_lades]

Originally posted by FORMERMSHP718
As far as some of your other arguements about pot being no worse than alcohol....i have to disagree on one major point....pot is illegal...alcohol is not.

LoL You will not get lynched friend, but you might learn a thing or two and that is not a bad thing.

With this quote you hit exactly what I am trying to say although you may of not realized that when you typed it. Do you not see something wrong with the fact that the worst aspect of marijuana isn't marijuana? It is the fact that it is illegal that does the most harm.

While it is in no way comparable with how horrible alcohol affects your driving, marijuana isn't a drug to drive on. Like alcohol you have to be responsible. Now do I think the new DUI laws regarding "drugged driving" are fair? No, there needs to be better tests for things such as driving while intoxicated by marijuana. Now they give you a urinalysis, and if it shows up THC positive, guess what? You are charged with DUI. You could of smoked 4 weeks before your car stop and theoretically been charged. That is wrong. But there is time for change and it will happen. No worries here.


Originally posted by FORMERMSHP718
but the odds go much the other way in that regard. eventually pot will catch up with you and you will suffer from it. (even if it is lung cancer from the smoke).


Marijuana can be smoked from a vaporizer. Burning minimal amounts of plant matter making for an almost pure cannabinoid and thc ingestion.
It goes much the other way? How besides cancer (which no link has ever been established scientifically to marijuana) will i suffer long term?

[FORMERMSHP718]

like i said before...i dont know a lot about the effects of pot, and by no means want to argue the benefits or harms...(i am simply not educated on the subject, the MSHP's stance is that it and all forms of it are bad no exceptions). As far as the The DUI laws in MO(actually there is no such thing...it is always DWI). The urine test is the last in a long series of things that determine the charge that the officer makes. there are several symptoms and factors that give your condition away to the officer...often the urine test is only to confirm what the officer already knows. i will never support the legalization of pot....i dont believe that the benefits outway the risks and harms to our society. as far as legalizing it, just because we cant stop it, that is the dumbest thing that i have ever heard. the war on drugs that police officers fight every day does make a difference. I told the recruiters when i signed up to be an officer that if i could stop one drug dealer from getting a kid started down a path that could lead to harder drugs and a lifestyle that has a signifigant chance of leading down a dark tunnel into nothingness. i dont consider pot to be any better than any other drug...all of them are equally horrible and cant lead to good things. I appreciate the attempts to educate me about the supposed positive of pot...however you will never change my mind.

[SlApAhO]

oh boy...where do I start?:D


I had actually been thinking about grabbing ole slap and coming your way to one of these forum meetings but I can plainly see that I would not fit..as I feel I am a minority to this group.

Judy......sure you could find me and drag me up there but I prefer the "get real road trip meetings at our special place" Scutter..WED ok? also got some R/E advice to give you a positive note on what you were thinking about in march/april.......

ok now...on with the issue at hand........

mj has a lot of uses.....I use to be one of those close minded individuals regarding the use of mj but after seeing what it has done for a couple cancer patients that I know...I had to rethink my stand on the natural product itself....in fact if you noticed on today's yahoo news.....a new study released showed that they have proven the cannaboids from mj interact with the brains natural cannaboid senses to postpone and or aleiviate pain...
I can also say that for its use in fuel would be an interesting topic that I will explore since I am heavily involved in alternate fuel/energy.....and we all know that it was originally used in rope making as well.....so yes there are uses for it AND I can also agree with Niandra on its recreational use and simplicity as or should I say compared to simply having a beer.....but then again I have also had a different outlook on alcohol as well..but I will say this Niandra I have seen mj take a person and absolutely destroy anything that person ever had or hope to have.....for the simple fact that it was being used with the WRONG attitude and that person was too blind to see it..covering it up with the lifestyle that follows it.....I will go no further with that....

Now you have the wonderful debate on getting high and driving and drinking and driving.. LETS JUST SAY.....that I could not account for everyone but I think one would spend more time trying to dig out the cheetos that have fallen in between the couch cushions than trying to make it to the door to drive....:D

So now for a real twist in your topic.........yep 13 states are med states...however the federal government overrides that......and for a supporter as yourself Niandra you should be familiar with Ed Rosenthal's case......so if the feds dont change their minds...are the states going to pull from the union? about the only way that it will work so they could govern themselves......
I guess my opinion on the legalization is legalize it.....the legality of it is its highest offense and I bet if I was around during prohibition I would be saying the same thing about alcohol....
legalize it...I think it would take some of our problems away and open some doors for new products and medicine and also an avenue to combat some other problems.........
OH and one more thing...I refuse to commonly refer to mj as a drug.....a drug in my opinion is something that has control over you without the ability for one to reconize it...therefore I would have to say before one could judge the situation one must look at each avenue.....if the wrong attitude is at hand...anything can be used as a drug....

[SlApAhO]

Judy...............i think ill find you and drag you to this! :D besides you can use it to cook with too!:D :D :D




















































OK GOT MY ONE SMART A$$ COMMENT IN FOR THE EVENING.... LOL

[Scutter]

Wednesday will work just fine Slap.

[niandra_lades]

Originally posted by judytesterman

smoke your pot niandra, have your parties niandra, have your friends that run in your crowd...ENJOY..I dont care...just keep the party invite OFF of a public board.

(start sarcasm) Because that is what is all about huh Judy? Smoking pot ? Parties? ONCE AGAIN, you are totally oblivious as to what I am doing in Joplin on Sept. 10. It was an event announcement, very pertinent to this section of the board.

What is funny FORMERMSHP718 is that we are losing the war on drugs on every front. In 2000, federal and state governments spent more than $40 billion fighting the drug war - a dramatic increase since 1980, when federal spending was roughly $1 billion and state spending just a few times that. Yet, despite the costs goin up of the drug war, illicit drugs are cheaper and purer than they were two decades ago, and continue to be readily available for ne one (remember, drug dealers dont ask for ID !). According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, nearly 57% of the population report that marijuana is fairly or very easy to obtain. In 2000, 47% of eighth graders and 88.5% of senior high school students say marijuana is easy to obtain. Additionally, approximately 24% of eighth graders and nearly 48% of seniors report powdered cocaine is easy to get.

Now after the most longest and costliest war in history we are making NO progress. That is only one facet of the failures of this policy.

[shinobi]

I guess we all need to just agree to disagree.:rolleyes: Nobody wins in these types of exchanges.

[niandra_lades]

Yah your right. But anyways, judy and formershs, I extend an invite out to you two and people like you that think about the event in a distorted perception. Im sure you won't find the "scabs" of society attending.

:cool:

[Aquabot]

<start sarcasm> Lord knows I love a good debate and I'd love to throw my hat in the ring but I'm simply too baked right now. I wish I was drunk. That would be much safer and much more legal. However, I usually don't drink until I get home from my Sunday Baptist Service. Then it's happy hour at the bottoms up club! <end sarcasm>.

[Aquabot]

Judy........

I don't smoke pot. I don't do any drugs for that matter other than caffeine and an occasional drink. However, I don't agree with Marijuana being illegal. I just couldn't resist your over the top debate. Had to throw in a quip. Couldn't help it.

[niandra_lades]

I have received a call from the city of Joplin in response to this thread. Someone told them I had an open invite to smoke marijuana in the park. Of course, we all know that is not the case. You know who you are. Nice try, but the city understands the nature of the event. And have always been gracious and more than cooperative. I have already spoke with Jerry Calvin and he has read the posts here and your attempt to discredit me/the event was null and void. I hope you never take action such as this in the future.:mad:

I am furious that this behavior exists. Some are a little more adamant to shut down things they don't agree with than others eh? Intolerance makes me sick.

[FORMERMSHP718]

I will concede that this is a war that the police will never win...however i do not think that we should abandon all hope and just give them what they want any time they want it.( i know that the consitituion gaurantees the right to pursue happiness, but only within the rules set forth by the government.) I have a very big problem with the fact that eigth graders find that mj is easy to find and get. i know it is out there and probably right under my nose...but that still bothers me. that is why we wont give up the war on drugs...even you should see that junior high school is a little early to be doing drugs...and yes mj is a drug...any thing that alters your mental state is a drug, including caffeine and chocolate and anything that gives you that "happy" or "sad" feeling. i hope that you are not in support of other drugs...cocaine may be readily available....but would you be supporting it in the same way your do MJ....i hope not. As far as states legalizing pot, they cant do it unless the federal government says it is ok...and guess what...that will never happen....the government is full of old conservative men and women who dont want to sacrifice thier place of power by approving and issue that so much of america is against. As many people who are in support of this, you are still the minority. and the minority doesnt stand a chance on this issue. i am the most liberal former police officer that you will find...and i cant even begin to see a future where this will be reality. Anyway, i have a question about this festival...is there an age limit to who can attend or is it open to anyone who wanders by? I only ask this because i dont think children or teenagers should be introduced to this culture ( i know this is kind of a moot point with the glamourization of drug use in movies and on TV)no matter what their parents view of the issue. anyway... i look foward to the next round....enjoy your festival..have fun and be safe. teach those who want to learn. i am not so closed minded that i wont consider your opinion on this issue as important and you all are intitled to any opinon you choose. my "distorted perception" of this event is just that my perception....teach me differently. as far as the invite..i have to pass...that is my son's first birthday...much to young to be introduced to your culture. (again i am not saying it is a bad culture...just not my choice of lifestyle). One more thing before i go for the day.....please cut out all of the sarcasm...we are all adults...quit acting like jealous high school kids.

[niandra_lades]

Originally posted by FORMERMSHP718
I have a very big problem with the fact that eigth graders find that mj is easy to find and get. i know it is out there and probably right under my nose...but that still bothers me. that is why we wont give up the war on drugs...even you should see that junior high school is a little early to be doing drugs...and yes mj is a drug...any thing that alters your mental state is a drug, including caffeine and chocolate and anything that gives you that "happy" or "sad" feeling. i hope that you are not in support of other drugs...cocaine may be readily available....but would you be supporting it in the same way your do MJ....i hope not. As far as states legalizing pot, they cant do it unless the federal government says it is ok...and guess what...that will never happen....the government is full of old conservative men and women who dont want to sacrifice thier place of power by approving and issue that so much of america is against. As many people who are in support of this, you are still the minority. and the minority doesnt stand a chance on this issue. i am the most liberal former police officer that you will find...and i cant even begin to see a future where this will be reality. Anyway, i have a question about this festival...is there an age limit to who can attend or is it open to anyone who wanders by? I only ask this because i dont think children or teenagers should be introduced to this culture ( i know this is kind of a moot point with the glamourization of drug use in movies and on TV)no matter what their parents view of the issue. anyway... i look foward to the next round....enjoy your festival..have fun and be safe.

The revival is open to whomever wants to learn. And FOR THE LAST TIME, It is not a "get stoned" fest. There is absolutely no reason to worry about your kids. There is music, information, and socializing. Maybe it will just wake some of them up to the lie that has been branded into them from their parents. A good time to be had by all.

Now while I am more of a recreational use, and medical advocate. Many in the drug policy reform movement do deal with the monetary and law enforcement facets of marijuana (and other drugs). I suggest you read some of this site. Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (http://www.leap.cc/)
I believe they may be able to level with you better than I. Howard Wooldridge (member) is a friend of mine and is currently on a trip across the USA on his horses with a shirt that says, "Cops Want to Legalize Pot, Ask me Why?" This site would probably be more appealing to you then anything i could say.

[FORMERMSHP718]

i guess that i am coming off wrong here....i dont mean to imply that all of you will be stoned in the middle of a cowfield(i am sure that there were many more people stoned during the route 66 music festival than will be at your festival). i am sure that you have honorable intentions of educating about the benefits of legal marijauna. my only concern with the kids was the odd ball who might decide to show the benefits first hand. i dont mean to imply that the kids will be in any danger or corruption. anyway...thanks for the website...that was what i am trying to get from you...i want you to try and convince me of your side(it wont happen....but a good effort is appreciated). i dont want to fight or argue about this issue...so i will just read other posts from now on unless someone provokes a response from me. have a good time.

[admin]

Don't get me wrong here... I'm not promoting the idea that kids should do drugs, but it seems like those kids that do drugs while still in high school and college are much better off than those who wait to try drugs until they have families, jobs and other responsibilities. Usually the kids who do drugs in high school / college grow up and live normal lives compared to those who don't. Just my opinion.

And the idea that someone actually called the City of Joplin about this thread irates me. That was truly a small-minded, Mickey Mouse thing to do. Whoever it was should be ashamed.

[niandra_lades]

So i know who called the city about the event (nearly 100% sure). What would motivate someone to stoop this low and lie? People who oppose this let me know? what is your rationale? I would just like clarification b/c I can't even begin to think why someone would do that? You are more then welcome to answer yourself, Mam....

[BlueRook]

It is slightly astounding to see some people arguing this primarily on emotion. So much so that stopping and comprehending what is written is of little importance.

First off, as niandra has said, this event is not a 'pot party'. It is a social gathering, a festival, to disseminate information. If you would have read the many posts it isn't just about the legalization and/or decriminalization of pot. It also includes people and industry being allowed to cultivate the hemp plant without onerous restrictions for doing so.

Industrial hemp is a very different thing to marijuana. You couldn't get high smoking a ton of the stuff. It can be used, as others have pointed out, for food, clothing, industrial projects (the fibers of the hemp plant are extremely strong), cosmetics, and way more products than I can recall off the top of my head.

In addition, the festival is so that medicinal and recreational uses of the 'drug' plant can be disseminated. To help dispel myths about it. It isn't saying, "Hey, come out and smoke some weed."

As to it being illegal. So? Just because it is illegal means that those that think that it shouldn't be should not be able to get information out regarding their position? To help foster a little understanding on the issue. Truth and discussion is one of the best things that can come out of this type of event and the reactions of both sides. Children that are old enough to comprehend what is being said and old enough to think critically about what is being said won't be harmed by this discussion.

Yes families and children are hurt by many things every day. Abuse of legal substances can and is often standard. However, many times these things are tangential to the real problems. Irresponsibility of parents for example.

I would agree that the the discussion about this that doesn't directly relate to the festival (and it is a local event where entertainment of the musical variety will be highlighted) should probably be in a different forum. Though I have yet to see anyone take the initiative and actually start the discussion there (or move it there for that matter).

There are so many things I was going to reply to after reading the many pages of posts. I'll probably remember more later. Though I have a few things I'll close up with.

FORMERMSHP718 actually stated that "i honestly dont know many stats about pot and its users" and "I dont know a lot about the effects of pot." Yet it was iterated that he was trained and applying his knowledge. I don't want anyone to think I'm picking on anyone but the cognitive dissonance in here is amazing. I would ponder to say that none of us in here are experts though some have seen the effects of substances (alcohol/mj/meth/etc) more than others on both sides good and bad.

I will leave you with a thought. Eventually something about marijuana and hemp will change. The number of States that have affirmed that their sick can benefit from the drug, the fact that our neighbors to the North have started a process towards decriminalization of pot for casual users (it isn't across the board yet), 500 economists are petitioning the government to decriminalize (http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread20904.shtml) (kind of biased site but the article is valid), among other things like this revival. There are plenty of examples of a fundamental shift in thinking all over the place.

[DWin60610]

admin, the tattletale should be ashamed. and i agree with your statement that "usually" kids grow up and go on to have normal lives. the vast majority of youth who experiment do go on to give it up and have a productive life. those who require rehab or become a drain on society is a quite small percentage. and then there are those who adopt a lifetime of experimentation and still lead productive lives.

BlueRook, you hit the nail on the head regarding responses based on emotion. In rhetorical exchanges, making a point based on emotional fallacy is the lowest form of discussion and is a strong indicator of a weak or non-existent argument. While it is effective in discussions with children (and commonly practiced by those with frequent interactions with children, eg teachers, even in discussions with adults), adults with well developed critical thinking skills are not swayed by such tactics. Further, several posts in this thread also suffer from ethical fallacies as well. Combining emotional and ethical fallacies completely destroys the credibility of the author and distracts from the focus of the discussion.

Good point by point statements. Much to consider.

Excellent pickup on the difference between what FORMERMSHP718 posted and what others believe his skills to be. BTW, there may be a few "experts" on any given topic lurking around these boards.

FORMERMSHP718, thank you for your contributions and the "openness" to consider other's opinions.

[john]

just to see the bio hemp fuel car. Does it look like the van from Cheech and Chong's "up in smoke"? , but seriously folks...

[niandra_lades]

lol no, it is actually a 1984 Volkswagen Quantum turbodiesel. Really cool, you can see pics of it @ Greater St. Louis NORML's (http://www.gstlnorml.org) website

[john]

however,I couldn't find any specs on the vehicle such as economy, cost per mile, and emissions. I have read about peanut and soy biodiesel and have been really impressed with the emissions and disappointed that there isn't anywhere to "fill" up at....sorry if a little off topic, but any alternative fuel source that burns clean catches my interest. Would like more info on "baked" fuels rather than fossil fuels. thanks

[niandra_lades]

http://www.hempworld.com/Hemp-CyberFarm_com/htms/hemp-products/bio-diesel/bio-diesel.html

http://www.hemp4fuel.com/

http://www.hempcar.org/petvshemp.shtml

http://www.jackherer.com


here are some links that will have some info...

[Scutter]

and ads accepted regardless of how many members threaten to quit the forums. This was the case recently when an ad was accepted for this event. This forum has been struggling for enough money to keep it going for years people, and keeping it going has fallen on the shoulders of a very few members. When a server bill is overdue, you just do not turn down advertising if it does not come under the headings of immoral or illegal, and I remind you all that this event is neither.

[john]

I agree with ya scutter, but I believe a defense of the ad is unnecessary...

if you are interested...click on it

if not...don't click on it

I would suggest to others though, that they should read the articles and such attached to the banner ad...as far as hemp uses go...there is some good information on there, and is well worth the time to check it out...

[shinobi]

If anyone has a problem with the ads, PM or email me with your gripes. Keep them off this thread.

[BlueRook]

So time and date is for sure set on this thing? If so I'll post it on my calendar at my site (http://www.joplinmusic.org/).

[niandra_lades]

yes it sure is, line up of bands will be out in 2 weeks give or take a few days..

[BlueRook]

Cool. I have added it to the calendar and as soon as the bands are known I will add those too. Just keep us updated.

[Iceman]

This is one gig I think that I'll not attend. If I was a user, I still wouldn't attend. Did you ever stop to think that there'll be persons there to get your tag # and your pictures to bust you later on. And they say it's won't hurt you. BULL, in my book, you aren't too bright if you use it, and by you going to it and getting set up proves I'm right. Iceman ---

[niandra_lades]

That is extreme paranoia, sure u dont smoke ?lol We have never had problems in the past and we dont expect them this year. We are not stupid. Just standing up for what we believe.

[BlueRook]

And not everyone that goes is a smoker. I haven't been in the past, usually because I forgot about it before hand, but if I can make it this time (and there are some good bands :) ) then I will.

That would be pretty funny having the police taking down tags and then stopping people that were just there for the music or the information. They might catch someone that way but I don't imagine they catch many in that manner.

[niandra_lades]

Line-up for bands will be released later this week...stay tuned kiddos

[niandra_lades]

This is one of the strongest line-up in years, come on out...in order of appearance the 2005 Cannabis Revival (http://norml.uark.edu/revival) will have:

The Whettman Chelmets
Ben Miller
Freakflag
Sleeper (http://www.dirtyloop.com/Sleeper.html) & iD (http://www.dirtyloop.com/iD.html)
One Track Mind (http://www.otmrocks.com)
The Coventry Sacrifice (http://coventrysacrifice.com/)
Hospice for the Stars (http://www.morawk.com/hospiceforthestars/)
Free the Leaf
Slugtrail (http://www.slugtrail13.com)
Skullpl8 (http://www.skullpl8.com)
Jah Roots (http://myspace.com/jahroots)

[niandra_lades]

Here are the (corrected) fliers, full page and 1/4 size handbills

http://norml.uark.edu/revival/flyer_quarter.jpg
http://norml.uark.edu/revival/flyerfull.jpg

[Gin]

Dang, dude! Couldn't you make that a little smaller? =o

[niandra_lades]

they are at the proper size for full page, and quarter size for 8.5x11. Any smaller would be only for the purpose of viewing on the web.

[niandra_lades]

Hey everyone, less than a week away...im expecting a good turn out...who all from the board is goin to try and make it?

[admin]

I'll try and make it... Maybe we can meet up?

[niandra_lades]

That would be cool...ill be there @ 7am for setup so your welcome to come introduce yourself in the morning or just call my cell 417-291-0135 sometime during the day

[john]

I will be there....I am looking forward to seeing the hempmobile

[niandra_lades]

http://www.joplinglobe.com/story.php?story_id=205346

Thanks to Dustin @ the Globe...

a few mistakes but no biggie

[shinobi]

I'll be there!:D

[shinobi]

I was a little disapointed in the turnout. Music was good. I'll post some pictures later.

[kasbah]

I got there at night. There was pretty good music. There weren't a whole lot of people there, but it wasn't too bad.

[niandra_lades]

How late did you stay shinobi? After the whole snaffoo with the horrible sound guy, we put a new system up there and after that people seemed to start to show up. After 4 things really got rolling and we did a quick count of 250-300 people around sunset. Jah Roots and the defense lawyer Dan Viets were the highlights for me.

I definately learned how hard it is to do a whole event by yourself. Next year a committee will be appointed and individuals will be responible for the planning of the different elements of the revival. Thanks for coming out shinobi and anyone else that made it this year.

[shinobi]

Well, I left around the time the preacher was done. What was his name? Interesting guy.

The heat (not the cops) got to me.:p Had to go find some A/C!:D

[niandra_lades]

Rev. Tom Brown from Fayetteville....He has an awesome library of information in his house.

It was hot...i dont blame you.